"The chief end of man is to glorify God, and to enjoy Him forever" - The Westminster Shorter Catechism.
John Piper takes this one step further: "The entire universe exists to display the greatness of the glory of the grace of God."
What exactly is God's glory? God's glory is the revealing of Himself and His infinite worth and character. The means by which He does that on earth is through His grace (grace: getting what we don't deserve) - look at His daily, constant sustenance of every living being; look at all the beauty in nature that He has intricately woven together; and most of all, look at the death of His Son, the innocent Lamb of God whose blood was shed for all of us. As the center of the gospel, and therefore our faith, grace is at the foundation of our praise to God. So because of that, the universe exists to display the greatness of the glory of the grace of God (for biblical evidence of that last statement, look to Revelation 5:12 - "Worthy is the Lamb who was slain..." - the greatest act of grace in history is at the center of worship in heaven forever.
God brings glory to Himself, and does so in a way that brings Him the most. Does this sound vain, self-serving, and just wrong? If we were referring to a human, then it certainly would be...because glory and praise is meant to go to God, not us. That's just what is right. And so it is not considered arrogant or wrong for God to seek to glorify Himself...it is what is right, and if He did not do this, He would not be God, because God only does what is right.
Given that introduction, I will make the claim that the fall of Man, and the ensuing cross of Christ, are both part of God's original plan from the beginning of time - this was no Plan B. In an earlier post, I discussed the problem with the concept of open theism. And so it should be no surprise here when I say that all that has happened is not a Plan B. God is always sovereign - He always was and He always will be.
Biblical support: Look at Revelation 13:8 - "All who dwell on earth will worship [the beast], everyone whose name has not been written before the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who was slain.
2 Timothy 1:9 - "...who saved us and called us to a holy calling, not because of our works but because of His own purpose and grace, which He gave us in Christ Jesus before the ages began."
We have here the slaying of the Lamb in view BEFORE the work of creation began, and also our grace and redemption. It was all part of God's grand design.
Okay. So what does all of this have to do with suffering?
Suffering is the result of the original sin of Adam and Eve - once that happened, "Pandora's Box" was unleashed onto the earth, and all forms of evil and suffering infiltrated everything. Since it has happened, we know that God has ordained it (remember, God ordains everything that comes to pass). Why would He ordain it though? Why not just prevent sin from ever happening and have everyone worship Him and glorify Him? Couldn't we have avoided all this suffering - the diseases, natural disasters, loss of loved ones, wrongs against each other, and slavery to personal sin?
Even though God has ordained suffering, He doesn't delight in seeing His creation suffer. Rather, He delights in the greater purpose of creation, to display the glory of His grace through Christ's suffering. Christ has nailed our suffering on the cross and has overcome it. Now we are counted righteous before God, and are reconciled to Him. Christ has healed us by his stripes. All this could take place only through suffering, and it all works to bring about praise to the glory of God's grace.
Since grace is so closely tied to God's glory on earth, we can be sure that this is the way that brings God the most glory - for it was the greatest act of grace that was ever performed. The fact that the pure and blameless Lamb of God was slain for us, the fact that Jesus Christ, God's Son, took on His full wrath in our place (God's wrath, multiplied by the billions of people who have ever existed), is beyond comprehension, and it is that act that is bringing about the praise and glory that God and God alone deserves.
*Let me add the important fact that God's will/ordinance and human choice/responsibility are fully compatible. In one sense, humans choose their actions, and God sustains them through their acts (whether they be good or bad). Ultimately though, we cannot fully comprehend the paradox that God foreordains what humans choose (God in relation to us is a Creator/creature relationship, and all we have to compare it to is creature/creature relationship...it's totally different. And so we won't understand this fully until we can ask Him face to face. Our responsibility right now is to believe that divine and human agency are compatible).
We see that it is by grace alone, solo gratia, that God is most glorified, and so the fall and redemption of Man are very much the center to God's perfect plan for the world.
There is more than enough here for one post, so next time I will discuss why God appoints suffering for His servants.
We know that sin comes from suffering, so the real question is: Did God create sin? Was sin and the fall God's intention for creation? You seem to say yes ("the fall and redemption of Man are the center to God's perfect plan for the world"). Help me understand.
ReplyDeleteThe answer to that is a clear and resounding yes. I think I said this on an earlier post, but NOTHING arises or exists independently of God's will. "I form light and create darkness, I make well-being and create calamity, I am the Lord, who does all these things" (Isa. 45:7).
ReplyDeleteGod sustained Adam and Eve in their sin and the fall of Man was ordained by Him - He determined that it would happen. And yet somehow this is in complete accordance with human choice.
Yeah, I would say that the fall and redemption of Man are definitely God's intention for creation. If we think about it, it's not like God would be like "Ah crap, those humans sinned and rebelled, looks like I gotta figure something out to get them out of this mess." Again, there is also the factor of human agency vs. divine agency...God ordains what we choose. And also the fact that what God ordains can be different from what He commands (example: He commands everyone to love His Son, but as we can see, that doesn't happen universally).
At the end of the day, God does not delight in our sin, or even in the death of the wicked. And I have no idea how this all works, but God has determined that this is the way He is most glorified (through showing us the ultimate act of grace through the sacrifice of His Son). And His glorification is the most important objective.
I don't know if that helped at all. What are you thinking?
And yeah, this concept was hard to swallow for me. The people writing in this book are really ballsy, but I think what they're saying is right. God doesn't want to be let off the hook for all of this, because He is the Author and cause of everything.
ReplyDeleteSo you are saying that we are created to be sinful. I guess I just have a problem with saying "God created man with the intention for man to be sinful", or "God created man to sin" or "God's original intention for creation was its fall."
ReplyDeleteThen what are we saying when we say "Be who God created you to be." We say that Christ has come to restore creation to what it was originally intended for, and that salvation is a return to what God intended for us. If God's intention was for us to be sinners, this can't possibly by right.
I think there is a difference between "allow" and "ordain." Ordain is putting a stamp of approval on something. Some more hardcore Calvinists would probably say God ordains all sin, but to me, I do not think God (generally) ordains anything sinful. If he does, our responsibility for sin is reduced.
If God truly ordains sin, he must be schizophrenic to be then displeased by sin. For example, how can God be displeased by Adam or even punish him for something God made him do/created him to be?
Also, there is an implication that Christ's death on the cross is necessary for God's utmost glory. I haven't really thought it through, but at first glance, I don't think this is true, because then God needs us, and humans become necessary for the glorification of God, which we all know is absurd.
Another question: Would God rather have Adam and Eve (and all humanity) sin or not sin? Would God rather the fall happen or not happen?
ReplyDeleteThen the next question is: Would God rather I sin or not sin?
I don't think the answer to these two questions can be different.
Ah I see what you're saying. Okay so...
ReplyDeleteNo, I don't think what they're saying is that humans were created to be sinful. God created Man (without sin), and saw that it was good.
I think ordain goes further than merely allowing, but not so far as a stamp of approval. But ordaining does mean that God has willed it to happen. Actually, I found this from John Piper on his website, it goes into this in more detail (skip down to Part 2, "Two Questions: Is God the Author of Sin? And Why does God ordain evil?"
http://www.desiringgod.org/resource-library/conference-messages/is-god-less-glorious-because-he-ordained-that-evil-be
God does not by any means make anyone sin. It goes back to the divine agency working along with human choice/responsibility.
Lastly, God doesn't need us. We can add nothing to His glory. God's glory is the going public of His infinite worth (according to John Piper). And so, while His infinite worth cannot be added to, He can be further glorified. And He happened to choose this avenue to bring Himself the most glory.
I have a big problem with saying that God created sin as well. I think that you could say that God indirectly created sin; anything conflicting with God's nature is sin. I don't think that is the same as God creating sin.
ReplyDeleteAlso I think that last paragraph is very contradictory: "Lastly, God doesn't need us. We can add nothing to His glory. God's glory is the going public of His infinite worth (according to John Piper). And so, while His infinite worth cannot be added to, He can be further glorified. And He happened to choose this avenue to bring Himself the most glory." I think this is an example of something humans cannot fathom (Isaiah 55:8-9). After reading this post, it does not make sense to me for God to create us...
Caleb, I think that when you say "be who God created you to be" can be taken two ways. One way is the way I think most people look at it, which is that God's original creation was good and we are to be good. Another interpretation can refer to Ephesians 2:8-10 that we are a new creation created in Christ to do good works.
Hi Chris!
ReplyDeleteYeah your concern is understandable, and I would agree that it would be indirect, because it's by definition a contrast to His nature.
Alright so with the glorification thing...we can add nothing to God's infinite worth or qualities (glory), but we can add to His glorification (the spreading of the knowledge/fame of His infinite worth and qualities) because He has chosen us to do so (and then in the Bible it says that if we are silent then the rocks will cry out and praise God).
Hai, I wasn't going to say anything, but I had a random thought in my head that i've been thinking about and would like to contribute into this conversation.
ReplyDeleteLet us not forget the first being that sinned, which was Lucifer, the highest of all angels. Angels and heavenly beings were created solely for the purpose to glorify God in all their actions. Their mere existence was to praise the Lord. Lucifer was the first to sin by desiring to be God, and in this, ultimately rebelled against God. Thus, the first instance of sin, in which God has entrusted His number one yet had to banish him.
Now enter humans. Humans were made just a little lower than the angels, they were earth dwellers but just as perfect as the angels that were made just above them. The fall of man happened because it was Lucifer/Satan/the Devil who had tempted Adam and Eve to be like God and to rebel against Him as well. And their fleshly bodies were too weak to stand against the temptation.
So to say that God had created mankind so that they can sin also would allude to the fact that God had created angels, and thusly, Lucifer, to rebel against Him as well. I suppose I find it difficult to believe that God had originally intended angels-heavenly beings created to sing his glory-to also be the creator of sin for the rest of humankind.
Just a thought that I think should be considered as well.
Hi Stephanie!
ReplyDeleteThanks for your thoughts too, and I see where you're coming from.
I want to bring up a couple Bible verses that I used in a former post:
Hebrews 1:3 - "...He upholds the universe by the word of His power."
The Greek word used for upholds is phero: to bring, bear, produce, or carry; active and purposeful control over the thing being carried.
Ephesians 1:11 - "...according to the purpose of Him who works all things according to the counsel of His will".
If these verses are true, then we must believe that nothing falls outside of His will/intention. There is also a distinction between God's revealed and secret will. Revealed will is what He has externally spoken to us through His Word (commandments and such). This will is breakable (as we see when humans sin and worship other things). However, His secret will (which no one knows except Him, hence the name), can never be violated. And so what Piper is saying is that EVERYTHING that happens is part of God's secret will.
So given all of that...I do believe that it was in God's secret will for Satan to rebel against Him, and subsequently part of God's secret will for Adam and Eve to sin. In doing so, God has been most glorified on this earth, through the revealing of His amazing grace. We don't know why God chose this way, and we're not supposed to know why.
In the end, though, like I've said in past comments, God's will and human choice are in agreement according to the Bible. It's a paradox that we can't understand now, but it's our responsibility to believe it's true.
Trust me, this was all hard for me to swallow, and I had to read over this part several times and meditate on it, but I do agree with what John Piper is saying with regards to sin/suffering here.